Viva Veracruz

[Calypso]

Mexican construction continues to baffle me in some respects.

Some examples: I deplore the fact they seldom if ever vent their plumbing - seems simple, straight forward and NECESSARY!

Why are the electrical outlets usually mid-high on the wall or higher? Why in this day and age aren't all outlets three wire (with ground)?

Why don't they use thermopane windows more (or at all)?

Why are light fixtures typically not installed - MOST housing and even public buildings merely have a wire hanging from an electrical box.

Why do they continue to be so haphazard about construction safety - haven't they maimed and killed enough workers by now?

There is little to no regard for the physical pointing (point windows south). The rules or lack thereof about offsets (perish the word), placing one structure against another with no regard for privacy, noise and drainage.

In some ways Mexicans seem very resourceful - they certainly end up with a lot less material waste when building (probably the major factor here is labor cost) - I mean they straighten bent nails and reuse wood until it is totally termite eaten or having so many nail holes it no longer will support one.

WHY- do they most often stucco their walls BEFORE they install electrical runs - this drives me nuts!

I will not get into their sewage dispersion or environmental issues.

But one last question - does anyone know where the ritual of giving a party to the hombres that put on a cement roof?
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[scott]

I hope the description does not describe YOUR house!
I have particularly been suprised about the installation of electric cable after stucco,so that they have to chip away and the wall always shows a shadow where wires run,hmm maybe useful afterall to track wires?
I think double pane windows are less necessary,a lot of construction here still does not use them. Also,I have had some bad experiences when the air between the panes is compromised and ruins the view out the window.

[sparks]

Most of the answers have to do with cost ... but I did buy a Makita brick saw so my workers didn't cut channels completely with hammer and chisel. They did that before the roof for plumbing and electric.

They said the placing of outlets was to keep toddlers away

My construction stopped for 3 weeks while one worker recovered from a fall. They didn't secure the scaffold.

Don't think the roofers party is universal but a bunch of Caguamas at the end of the job is frequent
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[joaquin]

Across the street from my apartment is a Centro de Salud. Last month, the front of the clinic was remodeled replacing the facade and putting large lettering naming the site. One week later, the workers returned and chiseled up the facade to install some wiring. Once installed, the workers re-cemented the front and repainted it. One week after that, they returned and did it all over again. I'm keeping an eye on the building awaiting the next redo.

I have seen workers using grinders to cut through re-bar and some cement without wearing goggles. Why do I see many people wearing eye-patches?

I always thought that electrical outlets were placed high on the wall was to prevent water damage from scrubbing the floor. From what I observed, water is thrown on the floor and then squeegeed out the door. Having outlets near the floor could be a hazard. It is simply shocking.

Have you noticed that NOB, electrical outlets are wired with black, white, and green wires. Red is used for wiring 220. But not in Mexico as I have seen two green wires running to outlets. Black and white mixed, Red and green wires. I am of the opinion that the color choice depends on the availability and how cheap can the wire be bought.
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I worry that all of my wisdom is derived from bad analogies.

[DavenRosy]

also for carrier wire on multi switched circuits

[Jonna]

hmmm... here's my thoughts on some of them.

- I've also heard that the outlets are put up the wall farther because of mopping. On the other hand, our architect wanted to put many of them on the floor. I vetoed that because I've lived with the way Mexican maids mop and I thought it was a recipe for disaster.

- I suppose double windows would be good if you were going to AC or heat a house but that isn't usually the case. Plus, the houses just aren't air tight, there is little reason for them to be so they aren't. I guess it is a question of climate. It isn't something I'd care about, even in extreme temps I prefer some air running through the house, I hate 'dead air' more than even cold. We did put weather stripping over the 1" gap under the doors however, mainly to keep 8 legged critters from running in off the street.

-light fixtures, kitchen cabinets, and even faucets and sinks are considered more furniture than house. They aren't always part of renting or buying a house.

-safety, well consider it a form of Darwinism... most of the time it all works fine. I have heard of workers who didn't like the setup (scaffolding, etc) and made it better before they got on it. I've also heard of ones that climb poles in the rain and throw wires over the electric line from a metal ladder - they didn't make it through that one. Our architect supplied helmets to all of the albañiles and while we never saw one wearing one we did see one being used to mix grout.

- privacy, noise and probably even drainage aren't high on the average Juan's priority list. I think that is more a cultural need. Although, here in Mérida it is illegal to put a window anywhere that it can look down into the side of a neighbor's lot. You have to have a written release to add a window on the side of an upstairs floor.

- I'm not sure I understand what you mean by physical pointing of windows. In the tropics it might not be a good idea to point a window south if that is what you meant. I do see a lot of common ways to keep a house cool used here, high windows that vent hot air, opposing ones for cross ventilation, overhangs that keep direct sun out...

- I agree about the chipping out to add electric, it makes no sense but it sure it common. I was kind of amazed that they did all that on our house before they put the finish on the walls, I don't think that's the norm.

- May 3rd (Dia de Santa Cruz) is considered el día de los albañiles and usually a meal of carnitas is provided by the boss. Over here, they wanted ceviche but that could be regional. They put a cross up on the roof of the house they are working on and it stays until the house is completed. I've seen houses with several faded crosses with old paper streamers on them, it must have been a long job. I don't know if that's what you meant, I don't know of one specifically for concrete roofs just all concrete workers.
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Jonna
A day without sunshine is like, you know, night.

Blah! Blah! Blah! Ginger!

[windknot]

Jonna's post should satisfy your "house positioning" question John....it's all a matter of where you live. For you in the high country, a southern exposure would be beneficial. But for us in the tropics, cross ventilation and overhangs are much more important. Since the warm and humid lowlands of Mexico were probably inhabited before people moved "up," I imagine that it's just a matter of transferring practices to which you are already accustomed, and this may also be at least a partial reason for higher electrical outlets; potential flooding. Mid-wall high outlets are very prevalent in the Florida Keys, at least in the older homes that were built before the law changed to require all main living spaces to be put on stilts. You'd also find if you lived in the lowlands, that if you had a problem with peeling paint and plaster from your walls, it usually occurred very low near the floor. "Humidad," they (the painters) always say....as they are here now, fixing my walls.

The tradition of the party probably stems from a (very) old tradition of the "ridge tree" (or branch) that is put up on the end of the ridge of a house that is being built. This goes way before modern "two-by" lumber, when building construction was all "post and beam." In this case, the ridge of the roof went up very early in the process, so the workers could be "blessed," throughout the major part of the building process. We used to see it a lot in New England, and as late as the early 70's when my parents built a pool and cabana off their N.Y. home, the workers (mostly Italian) put up a pine branch when the ridge of the roof was completed. It's supposed to bless the house and the workers who were working on it. At the end of the day, my Father took them a case of beer and they were happy, I guess. I tried to Google this for a more ample description, but was unsuccessful.
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Rick

[Ignacio]

I found this on internet and translated it with Google:

http://www.lapalmainteractivo.com/vida/content/vida/tradicion/0428_tradicion.html

Spanish to English translationShow romanization
Day to rebuild an old habit
And indigenous religious belief

By VERONICA MARTINEZ
La Palma

Friday, April 28, 2006

Among scaffolding, beams and sacks of cement, builders will take a day off to celebrate their day, the Day of Mason.

Also known as Holy Cross Day, The Day of Mason is a popular Mexican holiday celebrated every year on 3 May.

As the name implies, the main participants of this festival are just the builders, and anyone who works in construction, from the most modest of employees to the architect, principal engineer and patron of the work.

The festival itself is frequently take place at the site where work daily in the work itself.

Workers go to the site give their best effort, but this time, they do for work, but to celebrate.

Indeed, on this day, rest from his heavy work to enjoy delicious food, music, mariachi music and fireworks, accompanied by family and friends.

Within the party menu, you can not forget some of the more traditional Mexican dishes and popular among this fraternity, as the "barbecue", the crackling, the "carnitas" pork, the chilaquiles and the appropriately named "beans bricklayer" (beans with chorizo, chile and pork skin) and builder eggs (scrambled eggs topped with a sauce of chile de arbol), and of course, pile after pile of hot tortillas and salsa, without missing liters of beer and pulque (a drink alcohol derived from agave).

However, the primary reason they join is not simply live and enjoy a couple of tacos with beans, but thank God for the job, the ability to do it and by the fact that he can lead to their homes and their families, the daily bread.

The way they show their sincere gratitude and deep faith, through the development of a cross, placed at the top or front of the building they are constructing.

This usually occurs at dawn, the time at which these diligent workers often reach their place of work to begin its work.

The workers take some scrap wood found in the work, and decorate with fresh flowers that they have brought, or cut, and with pieces of tissue paper of different colors.

Then, the celebrants carry the cross to a church to be blessed.

Then place it on a bed of greens, or somewhere on the bricks, but many prefer to place it on the highest point of construction.

Also usually small mirrors placed around the cross, which serve to reflect sunlight, with the intention that through them, I get to heaven a sign of thanks.

Thus, the Day of Mason has a strong religious connotation.

In fact, this is a very ancient festival, festival commemorating the cross on which Christ performed his greatest sacrifice, and also recalls his triumph over death through his resurrection.

However, Cross also has a second meaning, it is related to an ancient Indian belief.

Before the Conquest, indigenous Mesoamerican related to the cross with the cardinal directions of the indigenous cosmogony: north, south, east, west and center, which graphically formed a cross.

With the arrival of the Spanish, this connotation was eradicated and replaced by the religious symbolism of the Holy Cross.

From then on there was the celebration of this festival with the construction of houses, churches, convents and other buildings with indigenous labor.

Fray Pedro de Ghent initially promoted this celebration and succeeded for a while, but during the pontificate of Pope John XXIII in the years 1958 to 1963, the Catholic Church decided to remove the liturgical calendar.

But the party was already well entrenched in the hearts of the Mexicans, who decided to continue the tradition.

Today, the masons, laborers and even day laborers who work in construction and even Mexican Americans continue to celebrate the Day of Mason.

For them, the cross represents his own faith, faith that put on the cross with the desire to protect them it will not happen any accident at work, to achieve complete construction soon, and for performing the work days to day is carried out in complete harmony.

Certainly, Mason Day provides an excellent opportunity to acknowledge the invaluable work of these construction workers, who sweat in their hands and build our homes, buildings, churches and shops. To all of you very much for your effort and dedication, and Mason Happy Day!

[frankania]

All good comments from everyone. Building traditions are hard to change in ANY culture. Traditions!
I always put plastic tubing (mangeras) in the walls where I want switches and outlets, or at least insist that my workers do it. Or at least if we forgot one, to chisel out a channel for the cable BEFORE stuccoing.

John is right about the plumbing vents; insist on it or do it yourself before the wall goes up. It is just a 2 inch plastic pipe going up inside the wall to the roof, somehere near the toilet (important) and kitchen sink too (less important) connected to the drain pipe of these items.

Any questions about these 2 items? contact me on this forum.
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[Jonna]

that's it. here's a pic of the cross on our house 2 years ago on May 3


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Jonna
A day without sunshine is like, you know, night.

Blah! Blah! Blah! Ginger!

[Calypso]

There are many drainage and odor problems due to the missing vent tube(s) This is probably the most ridiculous part of Mexican construction. It isn't just the odor it is the sinks tend to drain slow and things stop up easily without the air release.

I almost NEVER see plumbing vents.
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[joaquin]

I have seen vents for the hot-water heaters. The ones without a thermostat and they are often put to good use. I have seen geysers of hot water and steam shooting 15 to 20 feet up in the air when the gas hasn't been turned off and the water in the tank boils.

And I believe that there is no drain trap for the toilet and the shower in my apartment or the neighbor's as odors from the apartment next to my often drift into the room.
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I worry that all of my wisdom is derived from bad analogies.

[Kathe]

Toilets are made with a trap in them....the likely offender is the shower drain if you are getting odors. My experience is that putting a trap in a shower drain for a construction that is on a slab or in a second story in a masonry construction is difficult so they just omit it. Sinks have a space underneath them for a trap so if you didn't get one when the house was built you can at least get under there to retrofit one.
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Kathe

whirledvision dot com

[windknot]

Kathe is right, at least as far as my home is concerned. My showers have a "trap" of sorts, which is nothing more than a open-bottomed cup (attached to and extending down from the drain cover) within a larger cup that contains the outflow to the drain pipe. The water level in the larger cup is what prevents the gasses from escaping up into the room.

First and most common problem (at least for me) is when I do not use a shower and the water in the large cup evaporates. This makes the drain gasses able to pass upward. The solution is to pour about a liter of water down the drain to refill the cup, and the odor is gone. I have to do this in the cuatro servicio, about once a month.

I also think that strong winds can send gas bubbles up the wrong direction, as I can smell gas during a norte, but not at other times.

All that said, I also have a shower in a guest bedroom that has never been used and therefore has no water in the cup, yet I never smell gas in this bathroom. This bath is much further away from being directly over my septic tank, and I'm thinking this may have something to do with it as well, since the greatest problem I have, is in the servicio, which is almost directly over the septic tank, followed by my bathroom, which is a little further away, but I have smelled gas there at times....but it is rare and not bad. The aforementioned guest bath is further still. So I'm thinking that the more horizontal pipe you have between the septic tank and the shower, also hampers the escape of gas. What's going to be interesting, is that I cannot find any vents for the master bath, which is not hooked up yet.

BTW.....for those of you who leave your homes for extended periods to travel....and return to find dead and living cockroaches all over your home...well, they are mainly entering from your shower drains. So cover them before you leave and the problem should diminish significantly.
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Rick

[Calypso]

while what you write is true about the traps - the simple answer is venting; and this helps with the drainage as well. I have been in many places where the sinks, showers and toilets have slow draining. Still a mystery why they don't do vents - toilet traps or not.

In our brand new house ( a rental) they plumbed both sides of the kitchen water faucet with cold water. There is no hot water run to the kitchen. - jeeeez!

Almost always the boiler (water heater) is simply on the outside of the building in the weather (usually under an overhang or with a mini-roof. Here it gets reasonably cold at night - of course this is very inefficient to not have the water heater insulated and enclosed. Lots of wasted energy.

I added three wire ground sockets to most of the house. And in spite of Jonna not seeing a need for thermopane windows - here we get condensation on the windows which eventually will eat out the metal frames, the fogged glass limits our views many days and of course lets lots of heat out. Thermopane windows would make sense here - our new house is tight as she suggests is not common in Merida. This is mostly a two or three month hassle - so I assume they figure it isn't worth the added expense - however replacing the windows every five years because the frames have rotted out seems to be near term savings and overall long term more costly.

I noticed in the city where the building is a bit more sophisticated they use a lot more brick between the blocks (three rows red brick - two rows block - three rows red brick - two rows block etc. This will make more sturdy walls and add to the cost.

The last issue in the building process is that the workers are messy - often messing up other detailed work; having no regard for anything other than the job at hand. Sloppy tile work and poor detailed finish work are common.

Perhaps we from first world countries are too anal retentive - however much of this seems so simple - simple to do better and end up with a finer product.

While houses here are nearly as expensive as they are in the U.S. (comparing as best as one can apples to apples) the bathrooms, kitchens, electrical systems, no light fixtures (typically), and finish details are mostly inferior comparatively.

P.S. I still LOVE Mexico
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