Viva Veracruz

[Calypso]

Since we have been living in the city we have started watching the news in the morning (Azteca 13 HD). I find watching the news is helpful in comprehension of Spanish - Much of the broadcasts have highlights to the segment written out which helps - hear it - read it. At the same time you get a slant on what is going on here

I recommend it - however I stay away from the novellas and amateur singing contests.

Comments?
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[brenda]

Have been watching the local news on TV since we got here. The local news shows places we know which also helps in "getting" the story.
We also watch a news program from our state capital and another from Mex. City. I find the local one uses more local language and the other 2 are easier to understand as the spoken language has less local "slang" for lack of a better word.
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[Jonna]

I've been thinking about blogging my new addiction to a telenovela. Soy tu Dueña has hooked me. I get irritated if something keeps me from being home at 9pm to watch it. Luckily, here in Merida, things start late so it is rarely a problem.

I sometimes watch the news but only by chance, I haven't found out what time it is on. I'm developing an aversion to watching the news. We have a Canadian dish so get lots of channels in English and I've even found my LA news. I don't watch it much though. I'll watch the BBC international occasionally. About all I watch are Home and Garden channel in English and Soy Tu Dueña in Spanish.
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Jonna
A day without sunshine is like, you know, night.

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[Calypso]

Brenda - the local Veracruz news is too amateurish for me - and as you suggest the local dialect might have an effect - not sure as I don't watch.

Jonna - maybe I sell those novellas short They certainly are great visual quality in High Definition. We also watch some films with Spanish subtitles or the other way around. What is most surprising with that is how bad the translations are .

Oh and I am getting into futbol. Can not seem to spark any interest from anyone else here ;-( But those broadcasters words don't stray far from the game - an occasional remarkable hairdo comment or the like - otherwise I know most of the futbol jargon now.
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[windknot]

Gawd I wish I could get over this learning plateau I'm stuck on. But I still can't understand a dang thing that Mexicans are saying, when they are (say) talking to each other. I too watch the local Azteca news, in an effort to try and assimilate something, but usually it just puts me to sleep.

If a Mexican is talking to me and I know the subject matter, I can usually glean a few words and then make a pretty good guess as to what they are saying or asking me. And the reply is no problem, although I don't take credit for any gramatical acumen.

In other words, I can communicate. But other than that.....BTW, if anyone else has had the same problem and somehow got out of it, I'd surely welcome any hints.
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[Calypso]

Rick - it is really hard to teach an old dog new tricks. At least this is an excuse for my being in the same place.
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[brenda]

Windknot: Same problem here; although my Spanish class helps a lot. The teacher speaks fluent English as well as some other languages lol so she knows when I stick a French word into our conversations.
Our class consists of an hour of conversation about anything and everything. My comprehension has really improved by doing this type of class. Naturally she corrects my grammatical errors, pronunciation, etc. along the way.
She is an older lady and quite religious so we don't get into the "palabras groseros" or "bromas coloradas" and she is not quite in tune with a lot of the slang because of her age. (She says she can't understand 1/2 of what the teenagers are saying lol).
The other advantage I have, (maybe), is that in living in a totally Mexican neighborhood I have no choice but to hear it all the time which makes a big difference. Your ear gets more tuned in I think. There are a couple of other people who take the class and they live in the "tourist" type community and they are having a hard time also; but dare I say it, I think they struggle more as they are not hearing it constantly all day long. Their lives are still lived almost totally in English.
I also pick up some vocabulary, etc. from the children in the neighborhood. There are about 8 of them that each come separately for an hour twice a week for English class. They never slow down their conversations for you lol.
I don't think I pick much up by osmosis or immersion though, as if I don't understand a word I won't know how to spell it and therefore won't know what to look up when I get home so therefore do not learn the word. By the time I get home I can't even remember it, never mind look it up. No, I don't carry a pen and paper around with me to write things down on, that really puts a glitch in the conversation.
I do find that in comparison to the others in my class I do know which words are used more commonly here, they will come to class with a list of a few verbs used in the same way wondering which one to use, whereas I know which ones they use here in the "hood" and downtown, etc..
Unlike in Canada where I never talked to strangers, here I do. I will strike up a conversation with anyone at a bus stop, in a store, etc..
I am finding that the ladies in the stores approach me more often now than before when shopping. If we are both looking at something on a shelf they now will look at me and ask my opinion on the merits of one product over another which never happened before. Maybe I look/act more like I belong now??? Have I lost the "constantly confused" face lol I don't know.
My bug a boo is and will always be the dreaded VERBS!!!!
Sorry this strayed a bit and got long winded.
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[windknot]

Brenda, thanks for your post...it was very insightful. From it I feel safe in saying, because it is my experience too, that "immersion" is not all it's cracked up to be, at least for older...er...more mature individuals. For kids I think it is essential, and I have seen them become fluent in English, in less than 4 months.

The next thing is LESSONS. When I retired, I wanted to travel and fish in some exotic places. Many of these places were Spanish speaking countries, so I got a Spanish course and started learning. Incidentally, before I finished the book, I was way ahead of the "intermediate" Rosetta Stone lessons that everyone raves about. For me it was almost useless, and a big waste of money. I digressed. The big problem there is that I had no one to practice with, so I pronounced the words as they would be spoken in English. Therefore I don't recognize them when they are spoken and pronounced (correctly) in Spanish. MORAL: Take LESSONS...Don't start out with just a book....unless it has CD's with it, in which case use them!

I also (used to) speak French. It takes a while to get used to pronouncing every vowel in Spanish. The word "triste" is spelled the same in both Spanish and French, and even means the same. But the French don't (or in English) pronounce the "e".....but they DO in Spanish. I'm pretty much over that problem, anyway.

BTW....Have y'all noticed that people are getting away from "trilling" the r's these days? I never knew this, but even a single "r" is supposed to get a single "trill". I've noticed this when talking to people, mostly women, the men don't give a damn.... but when the single "r" is trilled, it makes (for example) "Veracruz," sound like two words, and maybe this is why some people write it as two words.

I digressed again. (sounds better than "derailing") So brenda, you're not the only one!
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[brenda]

Thanks, I tend to get on a roll sometimes.
My teacher is quite clear to us about not rolling our single "r's" lol; but she is quite educated and shakes her head at the way a lot of the people speak lol.
Books, online stuff, etc. are good for learning vocabulary as the more you have the better.
I try to stay away from online stuff from Spain as here the pronunciation is different as well as the word meanings/usages in some cases.
Sonora I have heard and noticed has a lot of English words added to their Spanish or English words used with Spanish pronunciation. Spanglish at its best.
I agree that immersion seems to work for kids; but for me not so much lol. My brain seems to be wired differently or processes things differently.
I had gotten the Rosetta Stone demo disc in Canada to preview the course; but wasn't impressed with it (I knew NO Spanish then at all) and didn't like the price tag either. I did buy 1 course, it was called Visual Link Spanish and I used it a lot in the beginning but have outgrown it now and haven't purchased the follow up courses to it. I can't justify the cost when I am living here and able to learn it for free.
The first thing I tell people when they speak about learning Spanish is to learn the alphabet, when you know it upside down and backwards the pronunciation comes much easier. If you know how to spell a word and know the alphabet you can pretty much figure out how to pronounce it taking into account the accents of course.
Remembering to pronounce the ending E was a chore for me at first too.
I didn't think I remembered any French until I starting speaking Spanish lol, those words come out sometimes without thinking.
For a lot of the verb learning it is in my mind just a lot of book studying, naturally it helps to have someone to tell you when each is applicable also; but lots just need to be memorized and that can be done on your own. I am really lazy about it though lately.
I visit/chat/BS with my Mexican landlady fairly often, she speaks no English at all, so if we get stuck we click on Google Translator on the laptop that is usually on the table in her home and we muddle through. It is getting much easier though.
I don't believe that I will ever be fluent as my memory is just not good enough; but I keep trying. Having a lot of stubborn in me is a good thing sometimes lol.
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[windknot]

"I agree that immersion seems to work for kids; but for me not so much lol. My brain seems to be wired differently or processes things differently."

You're right. There is a language center in our brains that we are all born with. With age it atrophies and eventually goes away. Tequila, rum, bourbon and vodka to name a few, also help the process over the years, I'm sure. So you can imagine someone (like me) who tries to learn a new language at age 55. I doubt I'll ever be fluent either, however I will keep trying, until the day I die.

But this is why European schools start their kids out with English and other foreign languages at such a young age. Swiss kids know Italian, French, German/Austrian, and a colloquial Swiss dialect, by age 11.
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[brenda]

Well perhaps if we keep working our brain language center we can slow down the atrophy lol.
Not sure about the USA but in Canada there are many immersion schools French/English and that seems to work well. The children start right in Kindergarten.
I think children born into bilingual/multilingual households have the best of both worlds in that they are able to learn both from birth onwards. We learn the most/fastest from birth to age 5 apparently.
I always thought the European countries had a great plan with all their language teaching. Wonderful wish the rest of the world would do the same.
In Guaymas the private schools teach English even in the pre-kinder programs. One of my neighbors 5 yr. old grandson has been in schools with English programs all the time and at 5 yrs. old the English classes I supplement him with are conducted almost solely in English. One of the other children had some English in private schools early on and was switched because of cost to a Federal School and is now in Public School. He had English classes in the private, a bit in the Federal and then none in the Public until 6 th level. So the 11 yr. old and the 5 yr. old are basically at the same level English wise. Mind you the 5 yr. old has a leg up in that his parents and grandmother speak some English whereas the 11 yr. old has much less available in his home.
Anyway good luck and happy studying.
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[Jonna]

I keep plugging at it with varying degrees of actual work. It seems that I am no longer any good at making myself study when I don't want to. I do try and stay in classes even though at times I feel that if I don't study more I am wasting my money. I've decided that by showing up twice a week I am learning something just not as much as I would if I worked harder.

I like the class I am in now, the teacher is excellent but she is due to have a baby in August and probably won't be teaching for a while after that. I may stop for a while as well, summer is a bad time to go to school. I think that is a belief that goes to the bone for me after all those years in school with summers off.

I speak some Spanish every day because of where I live and because I initiate many conversations while out and about. I can communicate pretty well as long as their accent is not too different and they don't slur too much. I'm told my accent is pretty good and not typically American. I definitely have a foreigners accent though, just not the usual one that Americans have. It's something about the length of the vowels I think.

I think we have all hit plateaus that are frustrating, and we can always understand more than we can say. Hearing a word will trigger a memory but searching for it in your mind doesn't always work as well. I'm now trying to stop translating in my head, to just listen and respond without thinking about it much. It definitely is better, it's just hard to get used to doing it. I now have moments when I can't remember whether a conversation was in English or Spanish or a sign I read or anything. That happens quite a lot, I will realize halfway through reminding Mimi of something that I think she should have heard that the conversation was probably in Spanish.

I even get some jokes, that's a milepost in my mind. My dentist (who doesn't speak English) made a joke today and then looked at me expectantly. I got it and I laughed and he was so pleased he told me my Spanish has really improved since he's known me. Well, I guess I will give the credit for that to these classes because I'm sure not sitting at home studying my verbs.
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Jonna
A day without sunshine is like, you know, night.

Blah! Blah! Blah! Ginger!

[windknot]

[Calypso]

I agree with you two (can you believe it [LOL]) you need to know the words without translating in your head. It is the same thing I have been going through with using metric - converting to feet and inches or Fahrenheit to Celsius or kilometers to miles or well you get the idea. It is so much easier to just think in those terms rather than converting.

As far as learning Spanish of course there is no one silver bullet - people learn in different ways. So the experiences here are interesting. I have used Pimsleur and Rosetta Stone with minimal success. I use Google translate a lot and find writing things in Spanish seems to help with speaking with proper sentence structure.

Anita speaks pretty good Spanish so this has weakened my skill relying too often on her - the easy way out. She encourages me and often suggests I go it alone and say what I have to say. But, I resort to, "You tell 'em." too often.

The learning programs, books, translators, films and television, watching sports and interacting with Spanish speaking folks in ones daily life will get you to a point but as you two suggest to get to the 'next leve' lessons are the way to go - something I have not done beyond high school Spanish ;-0
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